Wed 06:29:36 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . . *moves in a bit early to post the Topic Link*
For this evenings discussion:
http://www.reforged.com/session/
Wed 06:38:26 PM EST Dec 21 *~cybertooth*jingle*tigress~* . . . *jogs on upstairs....smiling through my oxygen mask to LowRider*.....
Wed 06:52:08 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
*moves in to sit, sipping Dew*
Wed 07:01:31 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
*sighs, as my plot to trap everyone in one room for the big Amway pitch has failed miserably...grins*
Wed 07:04:31 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
It was a good pitch too, as far as 30 year old pyramid schemes go....*grins*
Wed 07:05:57 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
I had charts...bar graphs...the works....
Wed 07:09:36 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . Good evening. ~smiles and sits~
Wed 07:09:56 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
Free coffee...those yummy little fruit pastry things....
Wed 07:10:44 PM EST Dec 21 Coug . . . okay, so.. can't the discussion be started as an observation and see were it goes?
Wed 07:10:45 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
*chuckles* Hey Alex. *smiles*
http://www.reforged.com/session/
Tonights topics. Though, might just be you and I chewing on them. *smiles*
Wed 07:10:46 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . Mmm... 0 VT calories. ~grins~
Wed 07:11:18 PM EST Dec 21 Coug . . . ohh damn near invisible in here.. *laughs*
Wed 07:11:30 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
Hey Coug. It could, if there were not already some topics at hand, sure.
http://www.reforged.com/session/ points to the ones I was approached with to discuss. *nods*
Wed 07:11:31 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . ~laughs~ Well, I can't see that as an excuse to run of things to pontificate, Ronin. ~winks~
Hi there, Coug. ~g~
Wed 07:12:06 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . I was just looking through that. ~s~ Nice. To the point and no bs. ~g~
Wed 07:12:21 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
Oh, such a good word. *just whispers "pontificate" five times in a row*
Wed 07:12:53 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
Well, I could add some bs if that would make them seem more substantial...*wry grin*
Wed 07:13:27 PM EST Dec 21 Coug . . . hello Alexandra.. *smiles*
Ronin.. yeah, sorta meant, start n see what happens...
Wed 07:13:37 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . ~grins~ I like it.
Wed 07:13:56 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . ~is no minimalist~
Wed 07:14:33 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . Uh. SO so so so
Not no.
Wed 07:15:05 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
Fair enough. Ok, first topic questions is:
"Do you feel that switching in any way diminishes your ability to fully experience/immerse in either Topping or bottoming?"
My personal take? Not at all. I don't feel one detracts from the other, and actually contributes to a greater understanding of both.
Wed 07:15:24 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . Well, we're a quarter into the hour. ~s~ Why not start with the first topic suggested?
My answer: No. ~g~
Wed 07:16:01 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . ~soft laugh~
Wed 07:16:26 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
All righty then. Moving right along...*chuckles*
Wed 07:16:46 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . Actually, I feel in some ways, my having experienced submission, quite deeply, has enhanced and even informed my growth into dominance, in many surprising ways.
Wed 07:16:48 PM EST Dec 21 Coug . . . think it depends on the two..
Wed 07:17:08 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . ~grins~
Wed 07:19:23 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
Fair enough Coug. *nods*
Alex, same here to a degree. If you defy "conventional wisdom" on what labels can be applied, I've found it opens up a lot of opportunities for learning that might have otherwise been closed. *nods*
Wed 07:20:18 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
This is going to be the fastest meeting ever. *grins*
Any more thoughts on the first topic?
Wed 07:20:56 PM EST Dec 21 Coug . . . Ronin.. I only meant if both aren't open to it.. then it can't happen, not with any success.. you can't do it alone.. *laughs*
Wed 07:21:09 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . I think most things do, Coug. ~nods~
I'm thinking more on a personal level here, I guess. In every D/s relationship I have, there are some fundamental things to which I respond consistently. But some of what I experience or desire or feel does depend on my partner and our interactions.
Wed 07:22:16 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . Ah, I see what you mean, Coug. I certainly agree. It takes two to tango. ~grins~
Wed 07:22:23 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
*grins* You can try Coug. And if you do try to go it alone, man, I want pictures....*chuckles*
I don't look at Switching in terms of the realtionship, but in terms of the individual, but yeah, I see your point. *nods*
Wed 07:23:44 PM EST Dec 21 Coug . . . Alexandra.. exactly.. consistently... it expected, not because it should be as much as because it is who One is.. more than anything else..
Wed 07:24:38 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
k....number two on our "hit or be hit" parade....
"Does it take you time to transition from one mindset to the other? Are there specific triggers that key one posture or the other?"
Yes...and omg yes...*wry grin*
Wed 07:24:47 PM EST Dec 21 Coug . . . Ronin.. pictures? 8x10 glossy's? or them cheap polaroids? *laughs*
Wed 07:25:54 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
Glossy Coug..always Glossy....*snickers*
Wed 07:26:23 PM EST Dec 21 Coug . . . Ronin.. them cost extra.. *chuckles*
Wed 07:26:33 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . Mmm... not sure I can comment on that one. ~thinks~
Wed 07:28:29 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . Except perhaps to say... there are always triggers that draw me to someone, be they dominant or submissive or neither or both. ~chuckles~
But are there certain triggers that 'switch' between top or bottom? I haven't experience that yet. ~g~
Wed 07:28:43 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . ~tosses a 'd' up in there~
Wed 07:28:57 PM EST Dec 21 Coug . . . Think it's like anything else, all mood related.. at times it's easy, others.. well if you've had a bad day, or wore out, certain things can brighten your mood, yet still doesn't mean your able to just jump..
Wed 07:29:16 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
For me, moving from one headspace to the other is not as simple as flipping a...well...*coughs*...switch. The exception to that is when certain triggers are stomped all over, eliciting a reaction specifically from one side or the other.
Wed 07:29:28 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . Oh wait... maybe. ~thinking some more~
Wed 07:30:28 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
That is very true Coug. I've found that if I;ve had to be an agressive ass during the day, that it's a bit harder to maintain that when I relax here, making me a bit more accessable to things that trigger a bottom response in me. *nods*
Wed 07:31:17 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . Back when I considered myself strictly bottom, there were certain things that triggered my desire to top someone, yes.
But as a top, I haven't really had a trigger from that to bottom.
Things have changed a lot for me in the last few years, so there are many things that may be yet down the road for me to experience.
Wed 07:31:55 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
Interesting Alex...*taking notes, grinning*
Wed 07:32:59 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . I'm constantly reminded that there is a lot I don't understand about D/s in general. ~soft laugh~ Let alone the finer points of switching.
Wed 07:33:47 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . ~laughs~ Sometimes I think I'm too open to... stuff.
Wed 07:33:51 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
Hm. Not sure there really are "finer" points. Just the same kinds of things you'd learn, grow into, explore with in other types of D/s interactions...simply from both perspectives at times.
Wed 07:34:17 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
Bite your tongue...*grins*
Wed 07:36:44 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . ~reads Ronin's post about aggression and relaxation and smiles, thoughtful~
I... kinda like being the 'aggressor', being 'in charge', being in control of things... including myself, and I haven't found I want to let go of that when I relax. Yes, let go of tensions, let go of worries, etc. But... I really, really like taking charge. And just generally being bossy. ~grins~
Wed 07:37:04 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . ~grins~ I need to be in the mood for that. heh
Wed 07:37:28 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
Ok. On to number three:
"Do you feel that Switches can only truly relate to other Switches with regards to understanding, acceptance and respect?"
I don;t think "only truly"....but it makes talking about certain things, and recognizing certain needs the other has in an exchange relationship a hell of a lot easier in my experience. *nods*
Wed 07:38:33 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
*writing furiously....'bossy...mood for tongue biting...'*
Wed 07:38:50 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . Well, mostly I mean finer points leading to understanding. So many things about the human psyche are a real mystery, and... I think some of it is best left to mystery. ~g~
Wed 07:38:55 PM EST Dec 21 Sapphic Jewel . . . steps in..waving to Ronin *s*
Wed 07:39:30 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . ~laughs~
Wed 07:39:53 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . Hi there, Jewel. ~smiles~ Nice to see you here.
Wed 07:40:20 PM EST Dec 21 Sapphic Jewel . . . hi Alex...*s*
Wed 07:40:41 PM EST Dec 21 Sapphic Jewel . . . nice to see You as well....*s*
Wed 07:40:45 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
Hey there Jewel...*smiles*
We're going down the topic list here:
http://www.reforged.com/session/
Wed 07:41:12 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
We're on numbah three....*grins*
Wed 07:41:12 PM EST Dec 21 Sapphic Jewel . . . was admiring the page...well done Ronin.....*s*
Wed 07:41:35 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . ~erases long posts which eventually concludes this:~
Yes.
~soft laugh~
Wed 07:43:20 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
Yeesh Alex, would you mind not talking so much? Can't get a word in edgewise...*sighs*
Wed 07:43:43 PM EST Dec 21 Sapphic Jewel . . . agrees....lol.....yes I think only Switches can understand other Switches....pretty much the same way that gay people can really understand what it is like to be gay.....(you know I always have to throw that in there....grin)
Wed 07:44:09 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . Um.. for the most part. ~g~
I would more accurately say, dominants who have submitted tend to understand my perspective better than those who haven't. ~nods~
Wed 07:44:32 PM EST Dec 21 Coug . . . *slips back in*.. rt.. sorry..
*scrolls back*
Wed 07:44:50 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . ~grins... and whispers "minimalist pontificator"~
Wed 07:44:56 PM EST Dec 21 Coug . . . Sapph.. now? *winks*
Wed 07:45:03 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . Welcome back, Coug. ~s~
Wed 07:45:07 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
wb Coug. You just missed Alex..talking up a storm....*rolls eyes*
Wed 07:45:35 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
"minimalist pontificator"....*chuckles* No mas...
Wed 07:45:47 PM EST Dec 21 Coug . . . Ronin.. well ya knwo how she is.. *laughs*
Wed 07:46:07 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . ~laughs~
Wed 07:46:15 PM EST Dec 21 Coug . . . hahah.. Roberto..
Wed 07:46:31 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
Ok...numbah four...
"Do you find that there are any of similarities between Top and bottom headspaces when it comes to pleasing and being responsive to your partner?"
This one should sound familiar Alex..*winks*
*waits to add my 2 cents*
Wed 07:46:34 PM EST Dec 21 Sapphic Jewel . . . hi Coug...*s*
Wed 07:46:50 PM EST Dec 21 Coug . . . Alex, can you elaborate on that last statement?
Wed 07:47:10 PM EST Dec 21 Sapphic Jewel . . . yes NOW Coug.....*grin*
Wed 07:47:41 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . Which statement, Coug? I'm been talking up such a storm, remember? ~snickers~
Wed 07:48:04 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
yakyakyak....*grins*
Wed 07:48:39 PM EST Dec 21 Coug . . . the one about dominants having submitted understanding you better..
yes had to scroll back lots n lots..*laughs*
Wed 07:49:04 PM EST Dec 21 Helen4 . . . takes up a spot and listens in for a few..*s*
hello everyone~~~waves a hello
Wed 07:49:25 PM EST Dec 21 Sapphic Jewel . . . hi Helen...*s*
Wed 07:49:48 PM EST Dec 21 Coug . . . hello Helen..
Wed 07:50:06 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
Evening Helen. *smiles* We're stuck between numbers 3 and 4 of this list: http://www.reforged.com/session/
Wed 07:51:16 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . ~grins~ Oh yes, definitely.
There are also definite differences.
Let's see. Some similarities are, getting off on their getting off. ~grins~ Oh, and I don't necessarily mean the big 'O'. ~l~ Being finely attuned to them... their responses, all the nuances of body, breath, sound. Reaching a zoned out place... flying.
The one BIG difference is hard to explain. But that zoned out flying thing... it feels very very different when you're in control at the same time. One might thing the control would take away the ability to 'let go' and fly... but it really doesn't.
There a kind of ultra-awareness...
Wed 07:52:39 PM EST Dec 21 Helen4 . . . bookmarked it..*l*
both spaces--- Top and bottom have expectations...
when I am in one or the other I give what I can when it comes to be responsive and the need to please is also there of course...moreso when I bottom
Wed 07:53:27 PM EST Dec 21 Coug . . . Alexandra, your describing giving, which can mean many things.. joy, love, happiness.. but understand what you mean..
Wed 07:53:27 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . Hello, Helen. ~g~
Well, I find that what I experience as a dominant is greatly affected by the experience of having submitted, Coug. It's hard to explain what the effects are, other than the obvious like "knowing how the submissive feels", etc. A dominant who has submitted tends to have had a similar... inexpressible type of experience. ~g~
Wed 07:54:28 PM EST Dec 21 Helen4 . . . *likes being in control if the one I'm with gives "that" to me*
Wed 07:54:33 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
*nods, listening*
For me, it's responsiveness...knowing what things trigger, what things resonate, and either providing, or accepting those things. It is just one hell of an thing..to explore both facets and add what's learned to the whole where exchange happens.
Wed 07:54:33 PM EST Dec 21 Sapphic Jewel . . . to Me...I find that getting into subspace is much easier...and really more desireable than DomSpace....as with DomSpace...there is so much to have to be aware of....
Wed 07:55:41 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
I totally agree Jewel.
But that's just beacuse I am lazy. *wry grin, winking*
Wed 07:55:58 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . ~nods, smiling~ It sure is.
I often find myself consciously grateful for my experience of submission. ~nods~
Wed 07:56:00 PM EST Dec 21 Sapphic Jewel . . . *winks* at Ronin.....
Wed 07:56:19 PM EST Dec 21 Sapphic Jewel . . . exactly Alex....
Wed 07:57:14 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . Oh, I adore both, Jewel. But if I had to choose? ~grins~
Topspace.
Every time. ~g~
It's possibly because I tend to be very cerebral about things. But also because I really love that ultra-aware feeling.
Wed 07:58:56 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
You? cerebral Alex? Say it ain't so!!...*chuckling*
Unsure if I have a preference. Or, if I do, it is totally dependant on the kind of person the interaction is with. I like to think I am flexible enough to adjust as needed, or as the situation warrents. *nods*
Wed 08:01:11 PM EST Dec 21 Helen4 . . . I like both...*s*
Wed 08:01:32 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
*grins* Here here Helen! *nodding*
Wed 08:01:32 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . ~nods~ I have always found that the interaction affects the space. Well, it seems kind of obvious it would.
If I were to pinpoint something specific, I'd say.. the higher the challenge, the deeper the space... either top or bottom.
Wed 08:02:21 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
Ok, number five on the hit and be hit list is a question in two parts:
"Name a few positive things you feel you gain by being a Switch.
Conversely, name a few that suck."
*not going first*
Wed 08:03:26 PM EST Dec 21 Helen4 . . . the higher the challenge...hmmmmmmmm
interesting...
like the more You ask of one...the more You get ...the more powerful it is for You?sorta?
Wed 08:03:45 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . ~stuck~
Wed 08:04:03 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . Yes, sorta like that, Helen. ~grins~
Wed 08:04:21 PM EST Dec 21 Sapphic Jewel . . . know both sides of the coin...so to speak
Wed 08:04:53 PM EST Dec 21 Helen4 . . . gain...I feel all parts of myself are being explored and I am a wholer person...
what sucks...when I want to bottom and my partner wants to bottom...*l*
Wed 08:05:48 PM EST Dec 21 Sapphic Jewel . . . oh damn, has been there before Helen....bottom/bottom doesnt work to well.....lol....remembering back to a few times..and laughs
Wed 08:06:02 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . I think I've already mentioned the things I like about having submitted, and the ways it's affected my dominance now.
I honestly can't think of anything negative.
But just for the record, I have to say, I'm not sure that having submitted necessarily makes me a switch. Because I don't switch now.
Wed 08:06:40 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . ~soft laugh to Helen~
Wed 08:07:14 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
"Two submissives decide to meet for dinner. After being seated, neither can manage to order anything."
*grins*
Wed 08:07:24 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . ~bol~
Wed 08:07:53 PM EST Dec 21 Helen4 . . . when was the last time You submitted Alex?*curious*
Wed 08:07:59 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . Is that where it's the old, "Whatever you want."
"No no, whatever you want."
"Oh no, I'm fine with whatever you want."
Etc.
Wed 08:08:15 PM EST Dec 21 Sapphic Jewel . . . lol
Wed 08:08:21 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . About 3 years ago, Helen. ~s~
Wed 08:08:34 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . ~thinks~ Maybe longer.
Wed 08:08:39 PM EST Dec 21 Sapphic Jewel . . . My last submission was RT....Dec 10....yummy
Wed 08:09:01 PM EST Dec 21 Helen4 . . . *rolls my eyes at Ronin and laughs*
I wanna please you...
no!I wanna please you...is more like it...*laughs as I make light of it*
Wed 08:09:31 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
gains: Far better understanding of what makes me tick. And a better sense of what is a need, and what is just a kink for me.
sucks: The judgment of others, and having to explain myself over and over and over again. And the misguided premise that someone who submits still can't kick the crap out of you. (that's a local dungeon RT issue I still am hung up on) *wry grin*
Wed 08:10:26 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . ~grins at Jewel~
Okay, now having said that. ~soft laugh~
There are bottom like activities I do still enjoy, for the sake of pleasure. But I don't submit to enjoy them... and I can't even say I really "bottom".
Err...
Maybe I'm just confused?
~snickers~
Wed 08:10:37 PM EST Dec 21 Helen4 . . . hmmmm...that's a while Alex...I'd have to agree with Your statement a few minutes ago then...*s*
but remember...it is in You somewhere I'd say...*wink*
Wed 08:11:37 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . ~smiles at Ronin's pro and con list~
I quit the explanation game. ~grins~
Wed 08:12:07 PM EST Dec 21 Sapphic Jewel . . . brb
Wed 08:12:07 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . Oh yeah. Frankly, Helen, I think it's in everyone. It's a matter of degree.
Wed 08:12:09 PM EST Dec 21 Helen4 . . . lucky You Jewel...*s*
Wed 08:12:44 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
You can;t quit it entirely. Say, you meet someone new, or start talking to someone that you are interested in. It is hard to try and explain what your gig is without it almost sounding too pat, like a routine, because you've had to explain it so many times. It can be annoying. *nods*
Wed 08:12:54 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . ~soft laugh~ Sometimes it's advantageous to be underestimated. ~nods~
Wed 08:13:15 PM EST Dec 21 Helen4 . . . don't say that Alex...The pure bloods will invade here and set You straight...*soft laugh as I think it's time to go back to baking*
Wed 08:14:06 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . True, Ronin.
But it all comes out in the wash. I enjoy the "getting to know" process, and that's part of it. Learning who the person is, and letting them learn about me.
The kind of explanation game I've quit is the defensive one. ~g~
Wed 08:14:46 PM EST Dec 21 Helen4 . . . *smiles at Ronin*
nice of You to host this "thing" here...
Wed 08:14:50 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . Ah well, Helen. ~chuckles~ It's my opinion. Let 'em eat crow. ~winks~
Wed 08:14:55 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
*nods* That is an important distinction. *smile*
*smiles, liking how this turned out rather well*
Wed 08:15:52 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . Indeed it has. ~smiles~ I've really enjoy it. Almost like a munch, huh? ~g~
Wed 08:16:00 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
Just seeing what resonates with folks Helen. Maybe we'll get some more folks for the next one. But this was fun, and I greatly enjoyed the perspectives shared. Thank you. *nods with a smile*
Wed 08:16:21 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
Almost Alex. No muffins. *straighfaced*
Wed 08:16:38 PM EST Dec 21 Helen4 . . . taking my betty crocker ass to the kitchen...
~~~waves a bye and disappears
Wed 08:16:48 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . ~snickers~
Err... okay. ~mum~
Wed 08:17:40 PM EST Dec 21 Alexandra~ . . . ~waves to Helen~ Thanks for coming. ~g~
I need to tidy up dinner stuff.
Take care Jewel.
Thanks so much, Ronin. Kudos. ~g~
See you soon.
Wed 08:17:42 PM EST Dec 21 Helen4 . . . *l*
I'll bring muffins next time..
Wed 08:18:15 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
Think I'll head as well. Thanks Alex. *smiles*
Night Helen..*smiles*
*waves to wherever Coug went*
Wed 08:20:49 PM EST Dec 21 Ronin . . .
FOR ANYONE ROLLING IN AFTERWARDS:
The link to what we discussed can be found here.
http://www.reforged.com/session/
We're looking at posting t-scripts of these so people can see them after the fact.
Thanks, and have a good night folks.
*nudges Alex and moves outwards to the D for a few*